What’s Up With Guys and the Money Thing?

Rachel Thompson

From a woman’s perspective, it’s not that difficult (is anything with men that difficult, really?): men are born to be providers. Whether they embrace that role or not, our society thrusts it upon them from a very young age. Even if they eschew materials things, it’s still a point of pride to be able to provide them.

So, what happens when they can’t?

The question posed to Delfin and I is this:

Why do couples fight about money?

A few reasons, from my own experience and observations. (And guess what? Not at all couples fight about it.)

Let’s deconstruct.

1.  Childhood: Even though we become a unit when we dedicate our lives to each other, we all still come with baggage, whether we want to admit it or not. I was not raised with a lot of money and started working at age sixteen. Paid for college. Didn’t work only when pregnant (and on modified bed rest both times), and believe me, that was a lot of fucking work.

My guy is a pathologist’s son. He wasn’t rich, but they lived a comfortable life.  nterestingly though, his father was a product of The Depression, growing up on a farm in South Dakota, often without meals during this time of strife.  His father hoarded money – they rarely took vacations or spent money on anything but the necessities.

How does that affect us now? While my husband is one of the most generous men I know, giving groceries to friends in our time now of economic strife, he struggles daily with making enough to provide for us. I see in his efforts to not be like his father, he’s in essence become similar regarding the importance of money. When we do have that rare little extra to spend, he
fights constantly with his need to ‘collect’ – Christmas decorations are his Achilles Heel (whereas the only thing I collect are followers on social media.  Okay, and maybe black shoes.)

Coming together doesn’t mean we can fight these subconsciously ingrained attitudes toward money and how it should be spent. Talking through how he must have another damn Santa versus saving the money to put toward a vacation is something we work on constantly. (For the record, it’s June and he still has a Christmas corner. Hey, it makes him happy. Shrug.)

2.  Desires: My guy can no more understand my need for another pair of black shoes or more music on iTunes, than I can fathom why he needs some new computer thingy. In difficult times, however, we are a unit: basics only.
There’s no room to fight over first-world problems when we’re worrying about making rent, ya know?

Knowing what is most important to each other is how you decide what’s worth arguing over (if at all), and when it’s time to band together and punt.

3.  Control: This, more than anything, is what I view as the number one reason couples fight over money. If you go joint, how does it work? Must you ask for permission to spend? If you stay separate, are you truly joined as a couple against the big, bad, expensive world?

Take or leave my advice, but while we immediately created a joint account for our paychecks, we both have separate businesses and the two don’t mix. I have my money, he has his. Regardless of how it shows up around tax time, I like knowing my book and business money are kept separately. We both contribute to ‘the kitty’ as we call it, as needed.

It’s also important when it comes to buying things for each other. How much fun is receiving a rare gift, knowing you paid for it? Call me romantic, but I like not knowing (even if I suggested it and know full well how much it cost). Conversely, if I want to buy something for myself, who wants to ask permission? He’s my husband, not my dad.

(This would be Chickspeak for those in the back. I know. It makes sense to chicks, though.)

And, as any divorce attorney will tell you – always have separate accounts. Even in CA (which is a community property state with a fifty percent divorce rate), it’s important to establish your own credit.

4.  Different species: Yes, we may both be human, but we clearly know Men are from Seinfeld and Women are from Friends. What we view as worth spending money on (past the basics) sometimes coalesces; oftentimes, not so much.

Knowing that we look at the world through testosterone or estrogen filled eyes helps me understand why my guy is down for missing out on a contract (he can’t provide), and helps him get why I’d rather save for a rainy day anyway.

The bottom line is this: money is a basic function of our lives. Have the discussions before you marry or enter into a serious relationship/living situation so what binds you doesn’t end up coming between you.

Just sayin.’

Behind Money Are Feelings

Delfin Paris

Couples fight about money because one person saves more and one person spends more.

My ex-wife was a saver, and I was a spender.  I made a little more than she did, but she did a better job of keeping it.

She was constantly upset with me for not being responsible with money.  I have never been in debt or owed even a cent on my credit card.  But I didn’t keep a budget nor track of the things I bought.  I could not save for shit.

So what was the problem?  Goals and boundaries.

We never had real conversations around saving goals or expenditures.  And when you have two people with different backgrounds these discussions are critical.  I would bet that most couples don’t have them.

Let’s back up to my ex-wife.  She would get angry at my inability to save.  Is that appropriate?

It is, and here’s why.  The feeling of anger is a response to a boundary violation.  And it is an entirely appropriate response.  Anger is used to defend boundaries, and there are many times where you’ll need to access it to protect yourself and others.

I never understood why my wife was such a ball-buster about this.  Why?  Because it didn’t violate  myboundaries.  I was more concerned about my ability to earn rather than save.

Let’s recap.  She’s a saver.  I spend and this violates her boundary.  She gets mad.  I feel shamed for not being a “good” husband.  I get resentful become even less willing to save.  She becomes angrier and the cycle continues.

Now, had we a serious conversation about our feelings and beliefs about money, this probably would have saved us a lot of stress.  I would have held her responsible for saving and budgeting expenses.  She would have held me responsible for earning and finding ways to create more income.

I have a friend whose husband makes a lot of money.  His wife, one of my favorite people on the planet, is a massage therapist.  She’s taught certification courses, studied with top experts, and runs her own private practice.  Plus, she raises their daughter.

Her husband has chastised her for not making “enough” money.  In other words, she is not contributing to whatever amount he believes is appropriate.  She feels bad that he earns a large salary and she makes a more modest sum.

Somewhere there is a disconnect here.  He doesn’t value her contribution because the amount is too small.  My guess is that he most likely resents her spending as he probably feels she is spending  his  money.

When one person feels that the other is spending  their  money there is going to be major conflict.

This is a hard question but you need to do it, like tonight, with your partner.

“Darryl (your husband’s name is probably Darryl), what is your honest feeling about how much I spend?  What do you think about my saving habits?  What about what I earn?”

Now, you need to not shame him for his answer.  Even if he references your shoe closet.  Notice what feelings come up for him.  Then reverse the situation and you can tell him that when he goes around turning off lights and lowering the thermostat it reminds you of your father, and that you wish to kick him square in the taint.

What we’re talking about, as Rachel mentioned, is communication.  And if your partner won’t communicate their honest feelings about your behavior, they’re probably not a great partner.

In the end the only thing that matters is the truth.  You need to find out your wife/husband’s views on money.  Then come to a compromise where you both win and lose a little.  He’s not allowed to use the strip club ATM (seven dollar service charge?  C’mon!) and you can’t apply for a house account at Jimmy Choo.

You need to recognize each other’s current position and celebrate your contributions.  The mom that stays home with the baby just saved her family 10k over a year.  The father who works the extra Saturday once a month makes it possible for that family vacation to Panama City Beach where nobody had a good time.

In short, turn off  Law and Order SVU  and have the conversation about “money feelings.”  You’ll get your Ice-T fix later catching up on  Ice Loves Coco.  Don’t feel bad.  He goes to work and gets to eyeball the hot secretary who he pretends is into him.  She’s not.

Money = feelings.  Find out what the feelings are, and honor those in each other.  Then, go make love or something.  Talking about money is boring.

Ooh, just thought of something!  Film the lovemaking and put it online and charge a few bucks!  The internet allows this sort of thing, you know.

Rachel Thompson is a best-selling author, mother of two, and devoted wife for over 20 years.  Delfin Paris has written no books, three magazine articles, and is divorced.  Both are funny as hell.

Rachel and Delfin logo by  Laci Roth  at  LogoSchmogo

Rachel Thompson and I would like to thank you for all the people that read our debut column, Rachel and Delfin Argue (About You).  You nearly broke my all time high daily record for views.

If you didn’t read the post you can do so here!

Also, that day I mentioned that her books could be downloaded for free on Amazon.  She received over 50,000 downloads.  No kidding.  That’s beyond huge.

Her books are back to regular price, but they’re insanely cheap, so help support her by purchasing them.

Now… once again we need your help.

Since you’re the readers, what topic(s) do you want us to tackle next?  Overbearing bosses?  Kids who pee the bed at seventeen? Crippling depression?  Farting in elevators?

Please comment below or email me privately with your idea.  We’ll tackle and dissect the issue and you’ll be super impressed with our wit and brilliance.

WHY EMOTIONAL DISTANT MEN AREN’T YOUR PROBLEM

Rachel Thompson

I got this, DJ. Step off.

When I first met my guy, I was thoroughly baffled at how he could be so romantic and lovely when he was not working, and yet so distant and humorless when he was.

Who was this guy? Was he bipoloar? Or had I done something to upset him? I was so confused.

Sound familiar?

Chicks are taught from an early age that crying works. Sure it’s manipulative and all, but so what?

So is cleavage.

Men are taught the opposite. Um, not the cleavage part – they’re hopeless when it comes to that, which generally works in our favor.

No, what I mean is they’re taught all that cliché stuff like man up, be a man, men don’t cry. Right? Even now, in our more culturally sensitive atmosphere where we encourage boys to play dress up and give them dolls, the basic premise is that men need to act like men when they grow up.

Which leads me to my main point: men don’t mean to be emotionally distant pricks. And they’re not like that all the time. It’s just that well, they kinda don’t know they’re doing it.

It’s usually only when they’re in what I refer to in my second book The Mancode: Exposed as ‘guerilla-grunt mode’ aka when they’re working, that they become hyper focused on the task at hand. As they should– they ARE working after all.

But see, here’s the problem – we don’t get why (guys) can’t be sweet with us all the time like we are with them (except ya know, once per month when we will walk across their heads to get to the Nutella).

Women are generally nurturers (not all of us – we all know women who are decidedly missing that gene—not that there’s anything wrong with that). And there are lots of nurturing men. Most men can be sweet and loving. Just not in the middle of a workday when on the line with an important client.

So…when we text you sweetly and you don’t return it in kind, we get a little pissy. You have NO IDEA we’re even upset (though you’ll surely figure it out later when we give you the stink-eye). Or you do, but you’re just blowin’ and goin.

This right here is why men are from Seinfeld and women are from Friends.

I experienced this early on in my marriage of twenty years. It took me a long time to understand that my guy was in work mode during the day and sweet husband mode at night, just as it took him awhile to understand why I was standoffish to him at night when he had blown me off during the day.

Ah, relationships.

What helped me the most? If you know me at all, you’ll know I’m not religious or new age-y. However, I read a book you may have heard of called The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. Small book, easy short read. (There are obviously only four agreements.)

I really only remember two since I immediately put them to use with my guy and my writing life, but the one I’ll talk about today is crucial here:

Don’t take anything personally. I know. This sounds ludicrous. How, if you’re interacting with your lover, can you not take it personally if they blow you off, say seemingly mean things, or otherwise treat you without well, love and respect? (Great advice for social media and authors as well, BTW.)

Well, most likely they are caught up in their own world of issues and whatever is going on at that moment has absolutely nothing to do with you.

This one is on us I think, more than the guys. They are in work mode, making money, doing what society expects of them. (Not that we don’t um, work hard for the money, so hard for it honey. Don’t get me wrong. We’re kicking ass, too.)

It’s just that how we chicks are during the day to our loved ones is…different.

Chicks multi-task, which includes the lovey-dovey stuff (throw in kids and this post takes on a whole new level of nurturing and interruptions). Guys save it for after work, when they can shower us with their full attention, which is lovely.

Bottom line for chicks: don’t take it personally.

Which isn’t to say the onus isn’t also on the guy to step up and water your plant a little – not a euphemism for sex but could be if that floats you boat.

If it is, really, I don’t want to know.

Learning not to take my partner’s behavior has been a big step in my own personal growth. I’ve learned to depend on myself for my own emotional well-being.

Well, that and martinis. Or Nutella.

Oh shut up.

YOUR WOMAN NEEDS YOU

Delfin Paris

Women – you are NEEDY.   Yep.

(Even you, Rachel)

Wait.   Don’t defriend or unfollow me just yet, dear readers!

Your neediness is a GOOD thing.   It’s how you’re wired, and apparently nature thought this to be best.   But here’s the problem…

You have been conditioned by society, and especially the media, to disown your needs.   A woman is a storm of feelings and chaos.   She lives fully in this space, and it is a beautiful dance to witness.   In order for you to feel safe to be yourself, you need to be with a man who can weather the storm of your emotions.

This does not mean the man is just “dealing” with you.   He is participating in your beauty, allowing you to be all that you are without shaming you in the process.

But, the message you’ve been receiving your whole life is, “You don’t need a man!   You can do it all yourself!”

And some of that is good, like in the business world.

But, I think you do need someone who can participate intimately in your emotional dance.   Someone who protects you but also is present while you express yourself.

This is something as men we are not taught.

And we are too stupid to understand allegory.   When my girlfriend IMs me at work and wants to chat, I am often too busy to speak with her.   If I don’t acknowledge how nice it was that she thought about me, I run the risk of hurting her feelings.

Now, my girlfriend is not especially needy or insecure.   She just wants to feel cared for and special.  JUST LIKE YOU.

So, I have told her – instead of asking me about my day which I will interpret as “asking me about my day,” how about saying, “Hey D.J., I need to feel special right now.   Say you miss me!”

Now, I understand this is not terribly romantic.   No woman wants to have to ask for something like this.   And wouldn’t it be great if we men were just able to decipher   womanspeak and respond with, “Hey honey, I really miss you right now!”?

What’s been our batting average so far, ladies?

So, what’s the solution?   First of all, women, you need to own that you need certain things from men and it doesn’t make you weak or pathetic.   Asking for what you want from your man is a position of strength.   And, if he doesn’t give you what you need?   Well, at least you asked.   If he doesn’t deliver you can re-evaluate the relationship.

Now men, I’m going to clue you in on a secret.   When your woman says that you are being emotionally distant, part of what she’s saying is, “I want you to be emotionally present for my feelings.”   When she’s bitching about you, she wants you to be there for her stuff.

As men, a woman’s emotional storms can drive us away because we don’t understand what you really need.   We think, “Ugh, the wife is droning on about how I’m not talking enough to her and sharing my feelings.   I just want to watch a dirty movie on Cinemax and pass out.”

Also, don’t you remember that we took you to dinner last weekend like you wanted?

Well, first of all it was Applebee’s.   Second, you had a coupon.

Men – repeat after me.   If you don’t fulfill your woman’s needs, she will find satisfaction somewhere else.

I talk a lot about my feelings on my blog.  It’s not a coincidence that most of my readers are female.   And you know how I know men doing a shitty job at being emotionally present with their woman?   Because women come to me and bitch about it!   Almost every single day I get a comment or an email about a reader’s man and their emotional distance.

Now, I’m pretty great and all, but wouldn’t you rather your woman get her needs met from you?

Men, you also need to realize your woman’s darker emotional storms are not personal.   Even if she’s screaming about how you’re a huge dick, you need to realize that she probably needs something you aren’t providing, and that she’s not saying.   Call her out and say, “It sounds like you’re not getting something you need from me.   What is it that I can provide?   I’m here and dedicated to you.”

Now, don’t say it like that.   Go put your arms around are and give her what she needs.

And, if for no other reason than I’m sick and tired of reading on my blog about how you aren’t measuring up.   Do it for me.

Rachel Thompson is a best-selling author, mother of two, and devoted wife for over 20 years.  Delfin Paris has written no books, three magazine articles, and is divorced.  Both are funny as hell.

To tide you over, Rachel has very generously agreed that, for today only, to provide her books at no cost for you.

Amazon only gives her a few of these comp days per year, and I am grateful she decided to allow my readers the opportunity to read her books for free.

Literally, tonight at midnight they go back to their regular price.  So grab ’em now!

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